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Post by Hugs-Cavies (Doris) on Jun 17, 2008 13:07:48 GMT
Yes, every two hours. What are you using to feed them? You will also need to wipe thier bottoms after each feed to get them to go to the toilet, if the sow is still cleaning them for you - that saves you a job. Does the sow have milk if you give her nipples a squeese?
Sounds to me like you have two litters. 9 is not unheard of but its quite rare. It is possible one sow induced the other, if the other helped with the first litter and ate some placenta, this would have bought on an early labour. Having said this, it could also be that the sow has toxemia and the underdevloped babies died in the womb. Is this the same sow that is cleaning them? If so keep a very close eye on her, give her plenty of good food. If she begins to go down hill you will need to get her to a vet.
I hope this helps.
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Post by cashmincal on Jun 17, 2008 14:54:06 GMT
I have no actual experience of bottle feeding, but I remember hearing about something to do with putting milk on on a spoon or a dropper so it does not go into their lungs? But don't quote me on that. I agree with Doris on the advice she has offered you and can not add to it
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Post by guineapigqueen on Jun 17, 2008 15:57:33 GMT
My first advice is not to bottle or syringe feed them you can fill the lungs up with milk and drown them, the best thing to do its let them lap it of a tea spoon.
I have heard wives tales of sows inducing the other sows in the same cage but nothing has never been put in front of me to say its true. I usually let me sows be together when they have litters and all this time I have never had a sow be induced by another.
Emma x
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Post by lisa on Jun 17, 2008 18:57:35 GMT
Tosca You are a star, With this huge task I really do feel for you As Doris has already said make sure mum has lots of good vit c rich food and make sure she is drinking too. I would also make sure you have a piggy savy vets number to hand who can maybe give you advice over the phone. Sounds like you are already doing a grand job!!! Keep us updated!
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Post by PigPog on Jun 17, 2008 20:36:57 GMT
Okay Tosca, I have actually been on the phone to Tanya for you since Tanya can't type, and she's given me some instructions to write to you..... 1. Stop bottle feeding and use a spoon. She agrees with what has been said above - bottle feeding can cause milk to get into the lungs. 2. Soak a slice of wholemeal bread in goat's milk and put it in the hutch with mum and babies. Don't leave them unattended with it and take it out when they're done, as the babies could fall asleep in it. 3. Keep the babies warm! 4. Feed them every 1.5 hours instead of every 2 hours as she says it takes a while to feed them. 5. When feeding them keep them standing up and let them suck the milk off the spoon. 6. Make sure the babies poo by gently rubbing their tummies. Also get some warm water on a cotton bud and gently stimulate their genitals with it until they pee or poo. She says they don't need to have this done every time, but every two or three feeds ideally. 7. Yes, sows can induce one another and she agrees with the above comment that one sow eating another's placenta can set off labour. 8. Find out who mum is by squeezing the nipples to see if milk comes out. She says to leave mum and any other lactating sows in with the pups but take non-lactating sows out immediately as they may see the pups as a thread and kill them. I hope this helps and I'm sure Tanya will be on again as soon as she can. There's a thread here explaining the nasty bite wound that has caused her absence.
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Post by guineapigqueen on Jun 17, 2008 21:35:01 GMT
Personally I disagree with removing the other sows, my last two litters gave birth in a pen with 4 other sows and they had no difficulties, finding the mother, and the other aunties did a great job of cleaning bums etc. Guinea Pigs in my experience are not like other rodents eg hamsters, gerbils and would never harm another piglet on purpose. I have always had another sow in with every litter I have had, sometimes pregnant to the same boar themselves. If the piglets do not have a mother I would leave one sow in, because they become lethargic and need some adult company to teach them they are guinea pigs.
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Post by guineapoo on Jun 19, 2008 0:31:12 GMT
I'm so sorry for picking this thread up so late, I've just read the PM from Pigpog. I've only bred one litter, so I'm not overly experienced in these matters, but you've been given fantastic advice so far by everyone!
They're more than 3 days old now aren't they? Have they eaten any solid food? If they haven't eaten any on their own yet, try soaking all-in-one pellets in the milk you're using or in water to make the pellets into a watery paste (you might need to thin it down to milkish consistency first) and feed it from a spoon as you're doing with the milk.
I think in terms of whether having another female in the same cage is a matter of personal preference and dependant on the personality of the non-parental pig. I don't believe another guinea pig would intentionally kill the babies - as has been mentioned they're different from rabbits and hamsters in terms of eating/harming their young, however there is a possibility that a second pig may not be so cautious around the babies as their mother would and they could be accidentally trampled.
How are they coming along? Has the mum become any more maternal? You're an absoloute star, and I have a lot of admiration for what you're doing xxxx
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Post by tosca on Jun 19, 2008 14:44:21 GMT
Thank you this has been such a great help to me and with all your advice, trial and error, and constant supervision this is how it turned out. Tara has the 2 oldest bubs and no milk. So I was feeding and she was cleaning but the constant attack on her dry nipples was hurting her. Elsa and Doll were the mothers of the 2 litters, 1 of which was stillborn as Doris suggested, I believe as they both had milk. I toyed with the idea of putting Tara +2 in with these sows to help with feeding but don't find her the most sociable old girl so made the decision to combine her 2 pups with younger litter and the 2 young mums with milk and leave her out of the equation all together. Success all round at 1st Tara didn't fret all pups were considered 1 litter by mums but after 24 hrs I noticed the 2 older ones constantly pushing little ones away, one of tiny pups was lethargic and Elsa was getting stressed. Now I have left Elsa with 4 tiny pups and separated Doll and 2 bigger pups and am supplementing all pups with bread and milk. It has been hard as the fear is I may have interfered too much. By the law of averages I know there are going to be losses from these poor piggies and have decided not to re home any more of them as they have suffered enough. I have people waiting for babies thru the local rescue center and I will let those 3 go but these others are here to stay. (Except for Marbles, but that is a happy story I will tell separate) Thank you all so much your support has helped so much.
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Post by meggiepiggy on Jun 19, 2008 17:02:38 GMT
I am so pleased that things appear to be resolving themselves for you - it must have been quite stressful for you, and possibly played a part in your recent asthma problems? You truly are a piggy hero
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Post by Hugs-Cavies (Doris) on Jun 19, 2008 17:33:04 GMT
If the babies are not suckling from the mum with sore nipples you could try some of the human sore nipple cream, oh now what is it called
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Post by 2piggiesforme on Jun 19, 2008 20:34:15 GMT
Lansinoh or Kamillosan are the best
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Post by Hugs-Cavies (Doris) on Jun 19, 2008 20:38:12 GMT
Thats the stuff!
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Post by guineapoo on Jun 19, 2008 22:39:37 GMT
Tosca, please dont think you've 'interfered' - at the end of the day, guinea pigs are born ready to go - fully furred, eyes open and eating mums food as soon as they figure out what it is! The slightly older ones will always have the advantage over the little one as they are just that litle bit big enough to shove them away. If it makes you feel any better, Angels first (and only) litter consisted of 6 pups. She sat on one and sadly squished him after a few hours. the remaining 5 are all still with us over 2 months down the line, at one point there was 20g difference in weight between the smallest and the biggest. She used to get fed up with them constantly badgering her for milk and used to shove her nose under them and sling them accross the cage when she'd had enough! She got fed up with being a mum very quickly, bless her! Ginge was separated at just under 3 weeks as he was being 'naughty' and I don't think any of them stayed on mums milk for any more than 3 weeks (mainly because she booted them one) and they soon learned to fend for themselves. From what you've said you're doing everything you can, those little piggies are very very lucky
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Post by PigPog on Jun 21, 2008 1:31:50 GMT
You've been brilliant Tosca. I think you need a well earned rest after this is all over with.
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Post by eppingstrider on Jun 21, 2008 8:52:08 GMT
You have indeed been brilliant! From my recent experience with a sick George, I dont know how I'd cope with all those piggies - and a family too! You're an inspiration.
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